Bungi Bill

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Posts by Bungi Bill

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  39

  Does mankind need religon to have morality?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  an arguement i've encountered recently is: god tells us right from wrong.

  if you don't have a reason to do right instead of wrong then no one will have any morals.. i disagree with this entirely of course.

  what kind of morality is it when you are only doing what is right out of fear of being punished for doing what is wrong?.

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  Bungi Bill

  Further to the track record of some of the more notorious political leaders that have been mentioned:

  - political extremism often takes on an almost religious dimension ("Heil Hitler", "The Thoughts of Mao", larger than life sized posters of Stalin, Mao Tse Tung etc.)

  Then, once again, people can be easily manipulated into performing what otherwise would be classed as atrocities.

  Steven Weinberg put it perfectly, "but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

  - bearing in mind that "religion" has many forms, some quite overt, others more covert.

  Bill.
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  140

  Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

  by Jeremy C in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

  last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

  one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

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  Bungi Bill

  I always give my father full marks for resisting the pressure from his newly-converted JW mother. She tried to place the heat on him to rear us three children "In the Truth." To his credit, my father saw through that one, and refused ( It only took his attending one Circuit Assembly talk to see the futility of forcing small children to sit through the mind knumbing JW meeting attendance routine).

  At least my two sisters and I were able to have a more interesting childhood than those unfortunates who were raised as JWs!

  All I can say is that the Witnesses do well to hang onto even that small minority of born-ins that they do manage to retain:

  - the miracle is that all those born-in do not give it away as soon as they can do so.

  Bill.
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  22

  How do you feel about not seeing your dead loved ones again?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it always felt rather unatural the thought of seeing people who had been dead for years.

  how would they come to terms with the huge passage of time that had passed?

  how would they be able to cope with the fact that their family had probably hugely changed since they had died.

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  Bungi Bill

  Not unduly distressed by this prospect!

  In this as in many other things, I can handle it - as long as I know the truth.

  i.e. I would rather know that they are gone for good, than be kidded along by some crackpot idea that I was going to see them again:

  - only to see that turn to custard (like everything else the WTS promised).

  Bill.
• 
  39

  Does mankind need religon to have morality?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  an arguement i've encountered recently is: god tells us right from wrong.

  if you don't have a reason to do right instead of wrong then no one will have any morals.. i disagree with this entirely of course.

  what kind of morality is it when you are only doing what is right out of fear of being punished for doing what is wrong?.

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  Bungi Bill

  No!

  Furthermore, introducing the G.O.D. word into things makes it possible to get people to commit acts that otherwise would be viewed as atrocities:

  - such as sacrificing children on the altar, or burning heretics at the stake, to mention just a few.

  Morality and religion are two completely separate issues, as witness the all-too-numerous persons about who are very religious, but yet no more ethical than anybody else.

  Bill.
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  33

  Do most JW's belive their own private version of the religon?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  trying to work with jw's and their cd i notice that the harder i push their beliefs the more likely they are to hit back with some werid version of jw belives that exsists only in their own head.. its almost like they listen to the bs from the platform, run it through their head and then process it through their own filter and end up with a bastardised version of "the truth" that they feel comfortable with.. .

  anyone else encountered this?

  and whats your theory about it?.

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  Bungi Bill

  The JWs that stick with it for any length of time would have to - in practice if not in word - follow their own version of it.

  i.e. giving lip service to the more bizzare requirements of their religion, but conforming with its more "mainstream" aspects.

  Otherwise, how else could they continue to preserve their sanity?

  Bill.
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  5

  "it's not about people"

  by stillin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  that is what my wife always says if i express discontent with the present-day organization.

  i should just put my unease aside and serve jehovah, regardless of what the other people are doing.

  but they are just plain embarrassing sometimes!

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  Bungi Bill

  How can anybody claim "it is not about people", when Jesus Christ said that theindicator of true Christianity was that they have love among themselves? In other words, if it is not about people - as your wife claims - then it bloody well ought to be!

  Bill.
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  8

  Is Religion a Necessary Evil?

  by fallen_princess in

  1. jw
  2. experiences
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  Bungi Bill

  Religion and ethics are two separate issues:

  - a person can be extremely religious, yet still be quite unethical. Sadly, there are all too many of that sort about.

  - conversely, a non-religious person can still have a strong code of ethics. As a litmus test as to whether a certain practice is right or wrong, you only need think for a moment what the world would be (i) without it, and (ii) if everyone did it. You certainly don't need some self appointed spiritual leader to tell you what is right and wrong.

  The danger with allowing a religion to become the collective conscience is that what normally would be viewed as an atrocity can suddenly become a god-dictated duty:

  - eg. Burning children in fires, exterminating the Canaanites, burning heretics at the stake, witholding essential medical treatment (such as blood transfusions or organ transplants) etc.

  As to the WTS claim that "spirituality is essential", all I know is that I have got by quite well without it for these last 17 years.

  Bill.
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  34

  CO talked out of both sides of his mouth

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  today was the last day of the co's visit, my husband stayed home from the meeting and we painted the house together which was good, but he wanted to tie into the meeting, i was ok with it as it allows me to point out the stupid parts of this religion.

  there were many things that made no sense but one that truly stuck out.. in his talk the co went on about how there are so many things satan uses to distract us from jehovah and one of them was fear of our future and how some work all their lives for retirement, many at jobs they hate.

  people do not enjoy the here and now all out of fear for what will happen when they grow old.

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  Bungi Bill

  It would be a very brave person indeed who attempted to put a limit on what the term "filled" could realistically mean:

  - something to do much to do with the matter of sustainability.

  Then again, even if that were correctly allowed for, there is still another sustainabilty issue - one that completely torpedoes the idea of "Everlasting Life." How there ever be such a thing, when in 5 billion years time, the sun runs out of nuclear fuel.

  Let's see if that bright boy of a Circuit Overseer answer that one!

  Bill.
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  35

  KINGDOM HALL IN SHANNON NEW ZEALAND LIES TIDY BUT EMPTY?!!

  by steve2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there's a kingdom hall in shannon, a small rural town in manawatu, new zealand, 16 kms from the nearest town, foxton, and about 30 kms from palmerston north city (population around 80,000).

  jws used to go on about how fast they were growing in new zealand that even a small town like shannon (population little more than 1,000) has its very own kingdom hall.

  in the late 70s, the local jws worked hard to build a brand new kingdom hall and i was among the happy throngs when it was dedicated.

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  Bungi Bill

  Who needs a KFC to keep ones cholesterol levels up, when there are two Shark & Shavings - sorry, Fish and Chip - shops in the township?

  "Four Square" is a grocery chain over there (The term "Supermarket" would be a little too flattering to describe most Four Square shops).

  All jokes aside, perhaps this situation is a commentary on two developments:

  - one being the decline in interest towards the likes of the JWs - by all but the immigrant population - in countries such as New Zealand.

  - the other development being the changing pattern of population in rural New Zealand. A generation ago it still contained a sizeable measure of young people, whereas now the rural population is noticeably older (and by extension, less tolerant of cranks, such as JWs.)

  Bill.
• 
  34

  CO talked out of both sides of his mouth

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  today was the last day of the co's visit, my husband stayed home from the meeting and we painted the house together which was good, but he wanted to tie into the meeting, i was ok with it as it allows me to point out the stupid parts of this religion.

  there were many things that made no sense but one that truly stuck out.. in his talk the co went on about how there are so many things satan uses to distract us from jehovah and one of them was fear of our future and how some work all their lives for retirement, many at jobs they hate.

  people do not enjoy the here and now all out of fear for what will happen when they grow old.

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• 

  Bungi Bill

  How anybody who has been "In the Truth" for any length of time can suffer out this sort of crap in silence is beyond me!

  The WTS has been preaching this line almost forever, leaving generations of Witlesses unprepared for old age and retirement.

  Twenty years ago, I can recall a public speaker assuring us that, to quote "Armegeddon is no longer just around the corner - we are, in fact, now looking down the home straight."

  If that is mean to be a short "home straight", I would sure as hell hate to see their idea of a long one!.

  Bill.